And this is it! The final post in the series updating Tally Comp for the main 16 armies. Today, we focus on the two Undead armies, Warriors of Chaos and Wood Elves.
Tomb Kings
-Tomb Kings start on a Comp Score of +2
-2 High Queen Khalida
-1 Arkhan the Black
-1 per 10 (or part of 10) Skeleton Archers in the army after 50
-1 per unit of 4+ Necropolis Knights
-1 per Casket of Souls
-1 for the 2nd Screaming Skull Catapult
+1 for a Tomb Herald Battle Standard Bearer
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Skeleton Warriors (not Archers)
+1 for the first unit of Skeleton Horsemen (not Horse Archers)
+1 per unit of Tomb Swarms
+1 per unit of Ushabti
+1 per unit of Sepulchral Stalkers
+1 per Warsphynx
+1 per unit of 20+ Tomb Guard
+1 per Necrolith Colossus
+1 Prince Apophas
+1 The Herald Nekaph
Commentary
There were no Tomb Kings at Raze and Ruin, so we couldn't use that as our starting point. However, whenever you use comp and an army isn't used at all, you have to think that there is too much comp on them. So, the first thing to do was give them a general bonus for taking Tomb Kings. I don't think anyone will think that this is over the top, and will possibly encourage them on their own as opposed to part of an Undead Legion (more on that later!)
I did tighten up some of their negative options in light of this bonus, including adding in a shot cap for Skeleton Archers. However, there are now plenty of options for bonus units to counter this. I still think we can do more to encourage them, but until they see some use it's difficult to know where they are in the grand scheme of things.
Vampire Counts
-1 for the first Red Fury, -2 for each subsequent Red Fury
-1 per Quickblood
-1 per Ethereal character after the 1st
-1 per unit of Dire Wolves after the first 3 units
-1 per unit of Crypt Horrors
-1 per unit of 9+ Black Knights
-1 per unit of Hexwraiths
-1 per unit of 1 Spirit Host after the 1st
-1 per Terrorgheist
-1 Count Mannfred
+2 per Zombie Dragon
+2 per Abyssal Terror
+1 per Coven Throne
+1 for the first unit of 40+ Skeleton Warriors
+1 per unit of Bat Swarms
+1 per Corpse Cart
+1 per unit of 15+ Grave Guard
+1 per unit of 5+ Vargheists
+1 per Varghulf
+1 per Black Coach
+1 per unit of Blood Knights
+2 for Vlad and Isabella Von Carstein in the same army
+2 for Heinrich Kemmler and Krell in the same army
Commentary
The first thing here was to fix the Bat Swarm mistake from the last edition of the pack! After that, we wanted to discourage multiple Blender Vampire Lords. We didn't want to just put comp on each subsequent Vampire Lord, as there are some fun things you can do now with 50% Lord points. However, we though that being harsh on each Red Fury after the first should solve that. We also lightened some of the Ethereal comp, giving negatives to each after the first seems much fairer to the infantry builds that are likely to use them.
I'm still worried that each Terrorgheist is only -1, part of me thinks that each after the first should be -2. But we can see how that plays out.
I did add a bonus option in Core for VC here - whilst we all know VC Core is terrible, having a big unit of Skeletons is the most deserving of a bonus, as they are neither cheap (like Zombies), good fighters (like Ghouls) or fast (like Dire Wolves).
Warriors of Chaos
- Mono God Armies. If your army consists solely of units/characters with the same Mark of Chaos, you may apply the below bonuses. Note that anything that does not have a Mark of Chaos, or an option for one, can all be included in such an army without costing it this bonus.
+1 Mark of Nurgle
+1 Mark of Slaanesh
+1 Mark of Tzeentch
+2 Mark of Khorne
-1 per character with a 3+ ward save, with an additional -1 should that character also have the Third Eye of Tzeentch or a 2+ Armour Save or better
-1 per Daemonic Mount
-1 per Disc of Tzeentch
-1 per Gorebeast/Chaos Chariot after the 3rd
-1 per Chimera with the Regeneration special rule
-1 per unit of Skullcrushers of Khorne
-1 per Hellcannon
-1 Throgg the Troll King
-1 per unit of Chaos Trolls taken as a Core choice
-1 per Daemon Prince, with additional penalties for the following options taken:
-1 for Level 3 or Level 4 magic user
-1 for Mark of Nurgle
-1 for Daemonic Flight
-1 for a 2+ Armour Save or better
+1 per Manticore
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Marauders
+1 per unit of 15+ Chaos Warriors
+1 per unit of Dragon Ogres
+1 per unit of 6+ Chaos Ogres
+1 for the first unit of 12+ Forsaken
+1 per Warshrine
+1 per unit of 15+ Chosen
+1 per Giant
+1 per Shaggoth
+2 per Slaughterbrute
+2 per Mutalith Vortex Beast
+1 Archaon
+1 Kholek Suneater
+1 Sigvald the Magnificent
+1 Valkia the Bloody
Commentary
Warriors were quite an interesting army to work on. If anything, we felt that there were elements to the list that were over-comped. However, as Warriors can very easily get an army that is very potent, we couldn't relax the comp on their really good stuff at all - in fact some of it got harsher.
What we did was offer them more options for bonus points. Mono God armies now get their own bonuses, and the general penalty for the Mark of Nurgle is gone. Now only a Nurgle Daemon Prince gives a penalty, and this can be offset by going Mono Nurgle.
Forsaken, Chosen and Warshrines all make their way into the positive comp section, but only if taken in sizable units. I have also left bonus points available for each unit of Chaos Warriors, as only 1 person took more than 1 unit anyway.
Wood Elves
- Enchanted Arrows:
Add up the number of models with Enchanted Arrows in the army. Models with Trueflight Arrows or Hagbane Tips count double for this. If this number is above 60, you score -1 for each 10 (or part of 10) above 60.
-1 per Spellweaver on the Lore of Shadow
-1 Moonstone of the Hidden Ways
-1 for each character mounted on an Elven Steed after the 2nd
-1 per Waystalker after the 2nd
-1 per Glade Rider unit after the 3rd
-1 per unit of 9+ Sisters of the Thorn
-1 per unit of Wild Riders after the 1st
-1 for 7+ Waywatcher models, increased to -2 for 15+ Waywatcher models
-1 for each unit with the Scout special rule after the 1st
+1 per Unicorn
+1 per Great Stag
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Eternal Guard
+1 for the first unit of Dryads
+1 per unit of 15+ Wildwood Rangers
+1 per unit of 10+ Wardancers
+1 per unit of 6+ Treekin
+1 per Treeman (including Durthu and Treeman Ancients) after the 1st
+1 per unit of 3+ Great Eagles
+1 per Branchwraith (up to +2)
+1 Araloth
+1 Drycha
+2 Orion
Commentary
Wood Elves won Raze and Ruin, and there were lots of other Wood Elf armies with very similar builds, so that was a sign of comp that wasn't quite right. The three main areas where Wood Elves seemed to "get away with it" as one person said were the Enchanted Arrows, large numbers of Scouts and lots of Wild Riders.
The last of these was the easiest to fix. Now one unit is fine, but 2 or more causes penalties. Same with the Scouts, though the number was harder to settle on. We've set it as after the 1st for now, but I'd like to hear back from Wood Elf players as to what they think about this.
The hardest part of the comp to get right was the Enchanted Arrows. Before, you could just go up to the number of Trueflight or Hagbane arrows, then get something else. Now, you can have up to 30 of those no problem, but then any more Enchanted Arrows will start costing you points.
I am worried that there aren't enough bonus choices, as the only ones I remember seeing were the Branchwraiths. However, the options are there to make a high scoring list, we will just have to wait and see if someone can make one that is any good!
There you go, all 16 armies have been updated.
Now, for those asking about the Legions armies from the End Times books - yes, we will be doing a Tally Comp style set of positives and negatives for these armies. However, we really need to give them some time to settle in to the tournament scene so we can assess their power level. I am hoping that in a couple of weeks, after Blood and Glory, we will be able to start piecing together the correct set of values. For now, you can simply use the positives and negatives from the individual armies as a guide.
If you have any feedback about these updates, please get in touch. As I said last time, I don't play every army so can't know them all as well as I would like. If you spot anything you think is a glaring oversight, or you think that something is drastically harsh, then I'd love to hear about it. You can use the comment feature of this blog, you can post in the Tally Comp thread on TWF or you can contact me on Twitter or by email.
Hope to see you soon!
Monday 17 November 2014
Sunday 16 November 2014
Updating Tally Comp - Part 4 (Lizardmen to Skaven)
Taking time off from frantically painting for Blood and Glory, I've put together today's four army updates to Tally Comp. We start today's offering with my two main armies - Lizardmen and Ogres, then we move on to the two horde armies - Orcs and Skaven.
Lizardmen
- The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Saurus Oldblood.
-1 per Slann with both Harmonic Convergence and the Channelling Staff
-1 per Slann after the 1st
-1 per Saurus character on Cold One up to the 2nd
-2 per Saurus character on Cold One over the 2nd
-1 if both Dispel Scroll and Cube of Darkness are in the army
-1 per unit of Skink Skirmishers after the 3rd
-1 per Chameleon Skinks unit after the 1st
-1 per unit of Skink Cohorts costing under 100 points, after the 2nd
-2 Tetto'Eko
+1 per Slann with Lore of Fire, Lore of Beasts or Lore of High Magic (excluding Focus of Mystery)
+1 for a Saurus Scar-Veteran upgrade to a Battle Standard Bearer
+1 for Higher State of Consciousness
+1 for the first Skink Cohort containing at least 2 Kroxigor
+1 per unit of Ripperdactyl Riders after the 1st
+1 per Bastilodon with Ark of Sotek
+1 per 4+ Kroxigor unit
+1 per 6+ Cold One Rider unit
+1 per 4+ Jungle Swarm unit
+1 per Stegadon (Note – does not include Ancient Stegadons)
+2 per Troglodon
+1 per 2+ Razordon unit
+1 Chakax
+1 Gor'rok
+1 Tiktaq'To
+1 Oxyotl
+2 Tehenhauin. If Tehenhauin is your General and your army does not include any Saurus characters, the penalties for Skink units do not apply.
Commentary
Despite the fact that both Jake and I play Lizards, and we thought that we'd hit them pretty hard the first time round, it was apparent that we needed to be harsher. Thankfully, we had already taken the main End Times issue into account with the comp on mounted Saurus characters, but with the new percentages opening up the option for double Slann again, we needed to stop that being an obvious choice. I had also forgotten about the Cube of Darkness, so in a similar vein to the Bret comp taking both that and a Scroll now incurs the proper penalty. As with Dark Elves, the Carpet is especially good on an Oldblood so the bonus is reduced when taken on him. Tetto'Eko was also comped too low at -1, so he got hit harder. Finally, we made the positive for a Skink/Krox unit only kick in when 2 Kroxigor are included. I am tempted to expand this to all Skink units with 2+ Krox, but I need to see how many people take this option first.
Aside from all the negatives, we added some positives. Higher State is expensive and of limited value, so it now gives a bonus. I reduced the numbers needed for the Kroxigor and Saurus Cavalry bonus points, and added a bonus for each baby Steg.
I hope these keep Lizardmen viable, as there are plenty of options for a high comp score. However, as they are one of the better armies out there I don't want them to be under comped.
Ogre Kingdoms
The Generic Comp bonuses are modified as below when taken in a Ogre Kingdoms army:
-The Runemaw does not count for the Racial Magic Item +2 bonus
-The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Tyrant
- If no Monstrous Infantry unit in your army is bigger than 4 models, then each Core Monstrous Infantry unit after the 4th gives +1
-1 for the Hellheart, additional -1 if both the Hellheart and a Dispel Scroll are in the army
-1 for the Runemaw if you only have a single unit of Monstrous Infantry of 8+ models
-0.5 for every Ogre character (except Hunters) you have if you only have a single unit of Monstrous Infantry of 8+ models
-1 per unit of 3+ Mournfang Cavalry
-1 if you have 1 Ironblaster, -4 if you have 2 Ironblasters
+1 per Big Name worth over 20 points
+1 per Hunter
+1 for the first unit of 25+ Gnoblars
+1 per unit of 5+ Sabretusks
+1 per unit of Yhetees
+1 per Scraplauncher
+1 per Slave Giant
+1 per Thundertusk
+1 if your army does not include any Ironblasters
+1 Skrag the Slaughterer
+2 Bragg the Gutsman
+2 Greasus Goldtooth
Commentary
Ogres worried me once the lists for Raze and Ruin were in. Aside from one very high comp list, they were all very similar and very low scoring. I was worried that I comped them too harshly. However, Mark Borland's list proved that they were capable of a tough list with a high score.
The decision was made to tighten up the comp in some places, but we also needed to give Ogres some more options. The changes to the Generic bonus items were obvious, as both the Runemaw and the Carpet on a Tyrant are very strong choices. We also hit harder the combination of Hellheart and Scroll, as they are better than the sum of their parts when taken together.
As for the bonuses, we added a fair few options. Single Sabretusks are no longer a negative, and there is now a bonus for people that want to play MSU Ogre lists. Hopefully this will encourage people away from the standard Deathstar build. Big Names, something that were overlooked in the previous version, now give a bonus point each. There is potential for abuse here, but as they come out of the character's Magic Item allowance I still don't expect there to be that many of them.
Orcs and Goblins
+3 if your army contains only Goblins
+5 if your army contains only Orcs
*Mangler Squigs, Trolls and Giants can count as either Orcs or Goblins as you want. War machines without Orc Bullies count as Goblins. War machines with Orc Bullies count as Orcs. Arachnarok Spiders, Squig Herds and Squig Hoppers count as Goblins.
-1 for every Black Orc character you have more of than units of Black Orcs
-1 if you have more than 6 Fanatics
-1 per unit of Savage Orc Big’Uns of 30+ models. This is increased to -2 if the Lucky Shrunken Head is also present in the army
-1 per Doom Diver Catapult
-1 for the 2nd Rock Lobber
-1 per Mangler Squig
+2 if your army contains no war machines
+1 for the first unit of Orc Arrer Boyz
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Orc Boyz
+1 for the first unit of Forest Goblin Spider Riders
+1 if you have 1 or more Nasty Skulkers
+1 per unit of Snotlings
+1 per unit of 20+ Black Orcs
+1 per unit of Orc Boar Boyz
+1 per unit of Savage Orc Boar Boyz
+1 per Arachnarok, +2 per Arachnarok with Catchweb Shrine
+1 per Giant
+1 per unit of Squig Hoppers
+1 if your army contains 1 or more characters on Giant Cave Squigs
+1 per unit of 6+ River Trolls or Stone Trolls
+1 Azhag the Slaughterer
+1 Wurrzag
+1 Grom the Paunch
+1 Skarsnik
+1 Gitilla Da Hunter
+1 Snagla Gronspit
Commentary
No changes here at all. There are potential for some really high scores, mainly for Goblin armies, but the two that came to Raze and Ruin still suffered from the problems of being a Goblin army! I really enjoyed seeing these Goblin armies at Raze, and I've left the comp alone mainly to encourage these great themed armies.
Skaven
-1 if you take 2 of the following items, -2 if you take 3 of the following items, -3 if you take all 4:
• Brass Orb
• Power Scroll
• Storm Banner
• Doom Rocket
-1 per Screaming Bell
-1 per Assassin with Weeping Blades
-1 per Warlock Engineer after the 3rd
-1 per unit of Giant Rats with less than 10 models after the first
-1 per unit of Rat Swarms with less than 3 swarms after the first
-1 per unit of 31+ Skaven Slaves after the 1st
-1 per unit of Gutter Runners after the 1st
-1 per Doomwheel
-1 if you have 1 Warp Lightning Cannon, -4 if you have 2 Warp Lightning Cannons
-1 if you have 1 Hell Pit Abomination, -4 if you have 2 Hell Pit Abominations
+1 for the first unit of Night Runners
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Giant Rats
+1 per Warp Grinder
+1 per Doom Flayer
+1 per unit of Rat Ogres
+1 per unit of 5+ Warplock Jezzails
+1 per unit of Plague Censer Bearers
+1 per unit of Poison Wind Globadiers
+1 per Rat Ogre Bonebreaker
+1 per Great Pox Rat
+2 for the Vermin Lord
+1 Thanquol
+1 Ikit Claw
+1 Throt the Unclean
+1 Tretch Craventail
+1 Skweel Gnawtooth
Commentary
Again, these have been left virtually untouched. The one change was to remove the Standard of Discipline from the penalty items pool, as it is already hit with a -1 from the Generic comp. We have already accounted for the danger of Engineer spam, and the Skaven armies at Raze didn't really avail themselves of the bonus options they had. There are plenty of ways that they can score these bonus points, but if they choose to take the filth they will get a very low score. Seems about right to me!
That takes care of these four armies. Tomorrow sees the release of the last four: the two Undead armies, Warriors and Wood Elves. Hope to see you back for those!
Lizardmen
- The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Saurus Oldblood.
-1 per Slann with both Harmonic Convergence and the Channelling Staff
-1 per Slann after the 1st
-1 per Saurus character on Cold One up to the 2nd
-2 per Saurus character on Cold One over the 2nd
-1 if both Dispel Scroll and Cube of Darkness are in the army
-1 per unit of Skink Skirmishers after the 3rd
-1 per Chameleon Skinks unit after the 1st
-1 per unit of Skink Cohorts costing under 100 points, after the 2nd
-2 Tetto'Eko
+1 per Slann with Lore of Fire, Lore of Beasts or Lore of High Magic (excluding Focus of Mystery)
+1 for a Saurus Scar-Veteran upgrade to a Battle Standard Bearer
+1 for Higher State of Consciousness
+1 for the first Skink Cohort containing at least 2 Kroxigor
+1 per unit of Ripperdactyl Riders after the 1st
+1 per Bastilodon with Ark of Sotek
+1 per 4+ Kroxigor unit
+1 per 6+ Cold One Rider unit
+1 per 4+ Jungle Swarm unit
+1 per Stegadon (Note – does not include Ancient Stegadons)
+2 per Troglodon
+1 per 2+ Razordon unit
+1 Chakax
+1 Gor'rok
+1 Tiktaq'To
+1 Oxyotl
+2 Tehenhauin. If Tehenhauin is your General and your army does not include any Saurus characters, the penalties for Skink units do not apply.
Commentary
Despite the fact that both Jake and I play Lizards, and we thought that we'd hit them pretty hard the first time round, it was apparent that we needed to be harsher. Thankfully, we had already taken the main End Times issue into account with the comp on mounted Saurus characters, but with the new percentages opening up the option for double Slann again, we needed to stop that being an obvious choice. I had also forgotten about the Cube of Darkness, so in a similar vein to the Bret comp taking both that and a Scroll now incurs the proper penalty. As with Dark Elves, the Carpet is especially good on an Oldblood so the bonus is reduced when taken on him. Tetto'Eko was also comped too low at -1, so he got hit harder. Finally, we made the positive for a Skink/Krox unit only kick in when 2 Kroxigor are included. I am tempted to expand this to all Skink units with 2+ Krox, but I need to see how many people take this option first.
Aside from all the negatives, we added some positives. Higher State is expensive and of limited value, so it now gives a bonus. I reduced the numbers needed for the Kroxigor and Saurus Cavalry bonus points, and added a bonus for each baby Steg.
I hope these keep Lizardmen viable, as there are plenty of options for a high comp score. However, as they are one of the better armies out there I don't want them to be under comped.
Ogre Kingdoms
The Generic Comp bonuses are modified as below when taken in a Ogre Kingdoms army:
-The Runemaw does not count for the Racial Magic Item +2 bonus
-The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Tyrant
- If no Monstrous Infantry unit in your army is bigger than 4 models, then each Core Monstrous Infantry unit after the 4th gives +1
-1 for the Hellheart, additional -1 if both the Hellheart and a Dispel Scroll are in the army
-1 for the Runemaw if you only have a single unit of Monstrous Infantry of 8+ models
-0.5 for every Ogre character (except Hunters) you have if you only have a single unit of Monstrous Infantry of 8+ models
-1 per unit of 3+ Mournfang Cavalry
-1 if you have 1 Ironblaster, -4 if you have 2 Ironblasters
+1 per Big Name worth over 20 points
+1 per Hunter
+1 for the first unit of 25+ Gnoblars
+1 per unit of 5+ Sabretusks
+1 per unit of Yhetees
+1 per Scraplauncher
+1 per Slave Giant
+1 per Thundertusk
+1 if your army does not include any Ironblasters
+1 Skrag the Slaughterer
+2 Bragg the Gutsman
+2 Greasus Goldtooth
Commentary
Ogres worried me once the lists for Raze and Ruin were in. Aside from one very high comp list, they were all very similar and very low scoring. I was worried that I comped them too harshly. However, Mark Borland's list proved that they were capable of a tough list with a high score.
The decision was made to tighten up the comp in some places, but we also needed to give Ogres some more options. The changes to the Generic bonus items were obvious, as both the Runemaw and the Carpet on a Tyrant are very strong choices. We also hit harder the combination of Hellheart and Scroll, as they are better than the sum of their parts when taken together.
As for the bonuses, we added a fair few options. Single Sabretusks are no longer a negative, and there is now a bonus for people that want to play MSU Ogre lists. Hopefully this will encourage people away from the standard Deathstar build. Big Names, something that were overlooked in the previous version, now give a bonus point each. There is potential for abuse here, but as they come out of the character's Magic Item allowance I still don't expect there to be that many of them.
Orcs and Goblins
+3 if your army contains only Goblins
+5 if your army contains only Orcs
*Mangler Squigs, Trolls and Giants can count as either Orcs or Goblins as you want. War machines without Orc Bullies count as Goblins. War machines with Orc Bullies count as Orcs. Arachnarok Spiders, Squig Herds and Squig Hoppers count as Goblins.
-1 for every Black Orc character you have more of than units of Black Orcs
-1 if you have more than 6 Fanatics
-1 per unit of Savage Orc Big’Uns of 30+ models. This is increased to -2 if the Lucky Shrunken Head is also present in the army
-1 per Doom Diver Catapult
-1 for the 2nd Rock Lobber
-1 per Mangler Squig
+2 if your army contains no war machines
+1 for the first unit of Orc Arrer Boyz
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Orc Boyz
+1 for the first unit of Forest Goblin Spider Riders
+1 if you have 1 or more Nasty Skulkers
+1 per unit of Snotlings
+1 per unit of 20+ Black Orcs
+1 per unit of Orc Boar Boyz
+1 per unit of Savage Orc Boar Boyz
+1 per Arachnarok, +2 per Arachnarok with Catchweb Shrine
+1 per Giant
+1 per unit of Squig Hoppers
+1 if your army contains 1 or more characters on Giant Cave Squigs
+1 per unit of 6+ River Trolls or Stone Trolls
+1 Azhag the Slaughterer
+1 Wurrzag
+1 Grom the Paunch
+1 Skarsnik
+1 Gitilla Da Hunter
+1 Snagla Gronspit
Commentary
No changes here at all. There are potential for some really high scores, mainly for Goblin armies, but the two that came to Raze and Ruin still suffered from the problems of being a Goblin army! I really enjoyed seeing these Goblin armies at Raze, and I've left the comp alone mainly to encourage these great themed armies.
Skaven
-1 if you take 2 of the following items, -2 if you take 3 of the following items, -3 if you take all 4:
• Brass Orb
• Power Scroll
• Storm Banner
• Doom Rocket
-1 per Screaming Bell
-1 per Assassin with Weeping Blades
-1 per Warlock Engineer after the 3rd
-1 per unit of Giant Rats with less than 10 models after the first
-1 per unit of Rat Swarms with less than 3 swarms after the first
-1 per unit of 31+ Skaven Slaves after the 1st
-1 per unit of Gutter Runners after the 1st
-1 per Doomwheel
-1 if you have 1 Warp Lightning Cannon, -4 if you have 2 Warp Lightning Cannons
-1 if you have 1 Hell Pit Abomination, -4 if you have 2 Hell Pit Abominations
+1 for the first unit of Night Runners
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Giant Rats
+1 per Warp Grinder
+1 per Doom Flayer
+1 per unit of Rat Ogres
+1 per unit of 5+ Warplock Jezzails
+1 per unit of Plague Censer Bearers
+1 per unit of Poison Wind Globadiers
+1 per Rat Ogre Bonebreaker
+1 per Great Pox Rat
+2 for the Vermin Lord
+1 Thanquol
+1 Ikit Claw
+1 Throt the Unclean
+1 Tretch Craventail
+1 Skweel Gnawtooth
Commentary
Again, these have been left virtually untouched. The one change was to remove the Standard of Discipline from the penalty items pool, as it is already hit with a -1 from the Generic comp. We have already accounted for the danger of Engineer spam, and the Skaven armies at Raze didn't really avail themselves of the bonus options they had. There are plenty of ways that they can score these bonus points, but if they choose to take the filth they will get a very low score. Seems about right to me!
That takes care of these four armies. Tomorrow sees the release of the last four: the two Undead armies, Warriors and Wood Elves. Hope to see you back for those!
Saturday 15 November 2014
Updating Tally Comp - Part 3 (Dark Elves to High Elves)
Welcome to the third of 5 posts showing the updates to the Tally Comp system. In this post, we take a look at the comp for Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Empire and High Elves - I will also try to give a little breakdown of why some of the things that changed needed to be changed.
Dark Elves
The Generic Comp bonuses are modified as below when taken in a Dark Elf army:
- The Black Amulet does not count for the Racial Magic Item +2 bonus.
- The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Master or a Dreadlord.
-1 for Morathi
-1 per non-wizard character mounted on a Cold One, Dark Steed or Pegasus
-1 for the first Supreme Sorceress mounted on a Cold One, Dark Steed or Pegasus
-1 Cloak of Twilight
-1 per Cauldron of Blood
-1 per Repeater Bolt Thrower after the 2nd
-1 per Shade Unit after the 1st
-1 per unit of 25+ Witch Elves
-1 per unit of 20+ Executioners
-1 per unit of Warlocks.
-1 if your army includes more than 10 Warlocks (additional to above penalty)
-1 per Dark Rider unit after the 3rd
-1 per unit of 9+ Cold One Knights
+1 per High Beastmaster
+1 per Fleetmaster
+1 per Manticore
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Dreadspears
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Bleakswords
+1 per Hydra or Kharibdyss after the 1st
+1 per Cold One Chariot after the 1st
+1 per Scourgerunner Chariot
+1 per Bloodwrack Medusa
+1 per Bloodwrack Shrine
+1 per unit of 15+ Sisters of Slaughter
+1 Lokhir Fellheart
+1 Kouran Darkhand
+1 Tullaris Dreadbringer
Commentary
Dark Elves, like Daemons, are proving difficult to comp correctly. However, with the new End Times rules it became obvious that the place to tighten up the comp was on the Characters. A lot of Dark Elf armies that we see have a big unit of mounted characters, and rightly so as they are very strong. These will now attract a much harsher penalty than before.
We also made some changes to the Generic Comp, as shown at the top, as some of the items it gave bonuses for were really obvious choices for Dark Elf characters to take. Every Dark Elf army at Raze and Ruin had the Black Amulet, and whilst they can still take it for no penalty it doesn't give the +2 bonus any more. The Arabyan Carpet is also a really strong item for a character that can almost get a 1+ Armour Save on foot, so it makes sense to reduce the bonus it provides. It does still give a bonus though!
Dwarfs
- Dwarf players start at a +2 comp score.
-1 per Cannon, Grudge Thrower, Organ Gun and/or Flame Cannon. Every choice from this list after the 4th incurs -2
-1 for every second item that automatically dispels a spell. (1 item incurs no penalty. 2 to 3 items incur a -1 penalty, 4 to 5 items incur a -2 penalty and so on)
+1 per unit of Slayers over 100 points. This bonus does not apply if there is more than 1 Giant Slayer per 5 Slayers
+1 per unit of Miners
+1 per unit of Ironbreakers
+1 per Runelord (includes with Anvil of Doom)
+1 per Daemon Slayer (Max +3)
+1 per Dragon Slayer (Max +3)
+1 Thorgrim Grudgebearer
+1 Ungrim Ironfist
+1 Belegar Ironhammer
+3 if the army includes no war machines
Commentary
There were very few changes to be made to Dwarfs, as we thought their comp was about right. However, it seemed that the armies at Raze and Ruin were a little above where we thought they were, so we reduced the bonus that Dwarf armies get to +2 from +3. This should still let them get big positive scores, but a standard army should be comped to a level where it should be.
The Empire
-1 per Master Engineer after the 1st
-1 per War Altar
-1 if you have no Core Infantry in your army
-1 per Great Cannon
-1 per unit of Demigryph Knights
-1 per Helblaster Volley Gun
-2 per Steam Tank
-1 per War Machine after the 4th (note that the Steam Tank also counts for this, and it is on top of the individual scores per war machine)
+2 per Wizard Lord on a Griffin
+1 per Wizard Lord on a Luminark of Hysh
+1 per Wizard Lord on a Celestial Hurricanum
+1 Markus Wulfhart
+1 Marius Leitdorf
+1 per Mechanical Steed
+1 per Witch Hunter after the 1st (Max +3)
+1 for the first unit (not detachment) of 20+ Swordsmen
+1 for the first unit (not detachment) of 20+ Free Company
+1 for the first unit (not detachment) of 20+ Spearmen
+1 per unit of 15+ Greatswords
+1 per unit of Outriders
+1 per unit of Pistoliers after the 1st
+1 per unit of Flagellants
+1 per Mortar
+1 per Hellstorm Rocket Battery
Commentary
As with Dwarfs, the Empire comp seemed about right from the armies taken to Raze and Ruin. We did make a couple of changes though, the main one on the negative side was removing the additional penalty for the Crown of Command. It is still a -1, but it's not now a -2.
As for the positives, we put in a couple of extra bonus units - Greatswords and Pistoliers. There should now be plenty of extra choices available to Empire players that want to get a high Comp score.
High Elves
Banner of the World Dragon:
-1 for each character of the same Unit Type as the bearer, including the bearer. Additional -1 if the bearer is Unit Type: Cavalry, or a White Lion of Chrace.
Please note that taking this item (hereafter referred to as BotWD) also causes some of the penalties below to change. If you select this item, then please see the notes in brackets after some of the entries below.
-1 for the first Frostheart Phoenix or Star Dragon, -2 for the second, -4 for any subsequent.
-1 per character mounted on an Elven Steed after the 4th
-1 Book of Hoeth
-1 for each Core Cavalry unit after the 3rd
-1 for each Repeater Bolt Thrower after the 2nd
-2 for each unit of 20+ White Lions of Chrace if Alarielle is in the army
-1 Teclis (-2 if BotWD is in the army)
-2 Alarielle (-4 if BotWD is in the army)
-1 Crown of Command (-2 if BotWD is in the army)
*Please note this line replaces the Generic Comp for the Crown of Command.
+2 per Archmage on Dragon
+2 per Dragonmage
+1 per Loremaster of Hoeth
+1 per Lothern Sea Helm (max +3)
+1 per Handmainden of the Everqueen (max +3)
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Lothern Sea Guard
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Spearmen
+1 per unit of 20+ Swordmasters of Hoeth
+1 per Lion Chariot
+1 per unit of 2+ Tiranoc Chariots
+1 per Skycutter Chariot
+1 per Flamespyre Phoenix
+1 per unit of 3+ Great Eagles
+1 Tyrion
+1 Eltharion the Grim
+1 Korhil
Commentary
Again, there were only a couple of changes that needed to be made to High Elves, each with regards to the End Times character allowances. The first was to remove the allowance for a mounted version of the Star Dragon or Frostheart. With the additional options available, these are now a much more viable choice and I don't think that they need anything more than the Generic Comp bonus for a non-spellcaster on a Monster. We also added a line to stop Cavalry characters being spammed, separate to the comp on the World Dragon banner. There are still plenty of options for bonus points though. I streamlined the maximum available for bonus characters, so they are allowed a max of +3 like most of the others.
That's it for today's installment! As I've said before, please get in touch with any feedback you may have about the comp. Tomorrow, we will have the next 4 armies - Lizardmen, Ogres, Orcs and Skaven. See you then!
Dark Elves
The Generic Comp bonuses are modified as below when taken in a Dark Elf army:
- The Black Amulet does not count for the Racial Magic Item +2 bonus.
- The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Master or a Dreadlord.
-1 for Morathi
-1 per non-wizard character mounted on a Cold One, Dark Steed or Pegasus
-1 for the first Supreme Sorceress mounted on a Cold One, Dark Steed or Pegasus
-1 Cloak of Twilight
-1 per Cauldron of Blood
-1 per Repeater Bolt Thrower after the 2nd
-1 per Shade Unit after the 1st
-1 per unit of 25+ Witch Elves
-1 per unit of 20+ Executioners
-1 per unit of Warlocks.
-1 if your army includes more than 10 Warlocks (additional to above penalty)
-1 per Dark Rider unit after the 3rd
-1 per unit of 9+ Cold One Knights
+1 per High Beastmaster
+1 per Fleetmaster
+1 per Manticore
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Dreadspears
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Bleakswords
+1 per Hydra or Kharibdyss after the 1st
+1 per Cold One Chariot after the 1st
+1 per Scourgerunner Chariot
+1 per Bloodwrack Medusa
+1 per Bloodwrack Shrine
+1 per unit of 15+ Sisters of Slaughter
+1 Lokhir Fellheart
+1 Kouran Darkhand
+1 Tullaris Dreadbringer
Commentary
Dark Elves, like Daemons, are proving difficult to comp correctly. However, with the new End Times rules it became obvious that the place to tighten up the comp was on the Characters. A lot of Dark Elf armies that we see have a big unit of mounted characters, and rightly so as they are very strong. These will now attract a much harsher penalty than before.
We also made some changes to the Generic Comp, as shown at the top, as some of the items it gave bonuses for were really obvious choices for Dark Elf characters to take. Every Dark Elf army at Raze and Ruin had the Black Amulet, and whilst they can still take it for no penalty it doesn't give the +2 bonus any more. The Arabyan Carpet is also a really strong item for a character that can almost get a 1+ Armour Save on foot, so it makes sense to reduce the bonus it provides. It does still give a bonus though!
Dwarfs
- Dwarf players start at a +2 comp score.
-1 per Cannon, Grudge Thrower, Organ Gun and/or Flame Cannon. Every choice from this list after the 4th incurs -2
-1 for every second item that automatically dispels a spell. (1 item incurs no penalty. 2 to 3 items incur a -1 penalty, 4 to 5 items incur a -2 penalty and so on)
+1 per unit of Slayers over 100 points. This bonus does not apply if there is more than 1 Giant Slayer per 5 Slayers
+1 per unit of Miners
+1 per unit of Ironbreakers
+1 per Runelord (includes with Anvil of Doom)
+1 per Daemon Slayer (Max +3)
+1 per Dragon Slayer (Max +3)
+1 Thorgrim Grudgebearer
+1 Ungrim Ironfist
+1 Belegar Ironhammer
+3 if the army includes no war machines
Commentary
There were very few changes to be made to Dwarfs, as we thought their comp was about right. However, it seemed that the armies at Raze and Ruin were a little above where we thought they were, so we reduced the bonus that Dwarf armies get to +2 from +3. This should still let them get big positive scores, but a standard army should be comped to a level where it should be.
The Empire
-1 per Master Engineer after the 1st
-1 per War Altar
-1 if you have no Core Infantry in your army
-1 per Great Cannon
-1 per unit of Demigryph Knights
-1 per Helblaster Volley Gun
-2 per Steam Tank
-1 per War Machine after the 4th (note that the Steam Tank also counts for this, and it is on top of the individual scores per war machine)
+2 per Wizard Lord on a Griffin
+1 per Wizard Lord on a Luminark of Hysh
+1 per Wizard Lord on a Celestial Hurricanum
+1 Markus Wulfhart
+1 Marius Leitdorf
+1 per Mechanical Steed
+1 per Witch Hunter after the 1st (Max +3)
+1 for the first unit (not detachment) of 20+ Swordsmen
+1 for the first unit (not detachment) of 20+ Free Company
+1 for the first unit (not detachment) of 20+ Spearmen
+1 per unit of 15+ Greatswords
+1 per unit of Outriders
+1 per unit of Pistoliers after the 1st
+1 per unit of Flagellants
+1 per Mortar
+1 per Hellstorm Rocket Battery
Commentary
As with Dwarfs, the Empire comp seemed about right from the armies taken to Raze and Ruin. We did make a couple of changes though, the main one on the negative side was removing the additional penalty for the Crown of Command. It is still a -1, but it's not now a -2.
As for the positives, we put in a couple of extra bonus units - Greatswords and Pistoliers. There should now be plenty of extra choices available to Empire players that want to get a high Comp score.
High Elves
Banner of the World Dragon:
-1 for each character of the same Unit Type as the bearer, including the bearer. Additional -1 if the bearer is Unit Type: Cavalry, or a White Lion of Chrace.
Please note that taking this item (hereafter referred to as BotWD) also causes some of the penalties below to change. If you select this item, then please see the notes in brackets after some of the entries below.
-1 for the first Frostheart Phoenix or Star Dragon, -2 for the second, -4 for any subsequent.
-1 per character mounted on an Elven Steed after the 4th
-1 Book of Hoeth
-1 for each Core Cavalry unit after the 3rd
-1 for each Repeater Bolt Thrower after the 2nd
-2 for each unit of 20+ White Lions of Chrace if Alarielle is in the army
-1 Teclis (-2 if BotWD is in the army)
-2 Alarielle (-4 if BotWD is in the army)
-1 Crown of Command (-2 if BotWD is in the army)
*Please note this line replaces the Generic Comp for the Crown of Command.
+2 per Archmage on Dragon
+2 per Dragonmage
+1 per Loremaster of Hoeth
+1 per Lothern Sea Helm (max +3)
+1 per Handmainden of the Everqueen (max +3)
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Lothern Sea Guard
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Spearmen
+1 per unit of 20+ Swordmasters of Hoeth
+1 per Lion Chariot
+1 per unit of 2+ Tiranoc Chariots
+1 per Skycutter Chariot
+1 per Flamespyre Phoenix
+1 per unit of 3+ Great Eagles
+1 Tyrion
+1 Eltharion the Grim
+1 Korhil
Commentary
Again, there were only a couple of changes that needed to be made to High Elves, each with regards to the End Times character allowances. The first was to remove the allowance for a mounted version of the Star Dragon or Frostheart. With the additional options available, these are now a much more viable choice and I don't think that they need anything more than the Generic Comp bonus for a non-spellcaster on a Monster. We also added a line to stop Cavalry characters being spammed, separate to the comp on the World Dragon banner. There are still plenty of options for bonus points though. I streamlined the maximum available for bonus characters, so they are allowed a max of +3 like most of the others.
That's it for today's installment! As I've said before, please get in touch with any feedback you may have about the comp. Tomorrow, we will have the next 4 armies - Lizardmen, Ogres, Orcs and Skaven. See you then!
Friday 14 November 2014
Updating Tally Comp - Part 2 (Beastmen to Daemons)
Right, here are the first 4 armies with their updated Tally Comp. If you play any of these armies, please feel free to let me know what you think about how your list has been affected.
Beastmen
- Beastmen players start at a comp score of +5
-1 per Shaman or Great Shaman after the first, only if the Shard of the Herdstone is included
-1 per unit of Ungor Raiders after the 2nd
-1 per unit of Harpies
-1 per Tuskgor Chariot after the first 3
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Ungor Herds
+1 per unit of 5+ Minotaurs
+1 per unit of Centigors
-2 per K’daai Destroyer
-1 Chalice of Blood and Darkness
-1 per Sorcerer Prophet on Hashut
-1 per Death Shrieker Rocket
-1 per Magma Cannon
-1 per Hellcannon
-1 per Bull Centaur Taur’uk
-1 per war machine after the 4th (note that the Hellcannon counts for this, and this is on top of the individual scores per war machine)
+1 for the first unit of Chaos Dwarfs armed with Fireglaves
+1 per unit of Chaos Dwarf Ironsworn
+1 per unit of K’daai Fireborn
+1 per Dreadquake Mortar
- Daemons of Chaos armies start at a comp score of -2, to take into account the army wide Special Rules and the Reign of Chaos table.
- Mono God Armies. If your army consists solely of Daemons of a single Chaos God, you may apply the below bonuses:
+1 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Nurgle
+1 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Tzeentch – also you may ignore the penalty for multiple Tzeentch casters
+2 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Slaanesh
+2 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Khorne - also you may halve the penalty for having 2 Skull Cannons
-3 Epidemius
-8 Kairos Fateweaver
-1 Blue Scribes
-2 Be'Lakor
-1 per Exalted Gift
-1 per Herald of Nurgle in the army more than units of 20+ Plaguebearers in the army
-1 per Exalted Flamer, increasing to -2 for each Exalted Flamer after the 2nd
-1 per caster using the Lore of Tzeentch after the 2nd
-1 per unit of Beasts of Nurgle
-1 per Beast of Nurgle model after the 5th
-1 per Plague Drone unit
-1 if you have 1 Skull Cannon of Khorne, -4 if you have 2 Skull Cannons
+1 per Daemon Prince
+1 per Keeper of Secrets
+1 per Blood Throne of Khorne
+1 for the first unit of Daemonettes
+1 for the first unit of Bloodletters
+1 per Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh or Hellflayer of Slaanesh after the 1st
+1 per Burning Chariot of Tzeentch
+1 per unit of 4 or more Bloodcrushers
+1 per Exalted Chariot of Slaanesh
+1 Skarbrand
+1 Ku'Gath Plaguefather
Beastmen
- Beastmen players start at a comp score of +5
-1 per Shaman or Great Shaman after the first, only if the Shard of the Herdstone is included
-1 per unit of Ungor Raiders after the 2nd
-1 per unit of Harpies
-1 per Tuskgor Chariot after the first 3
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Ungor Herds
+1 per unit of 5+ Minotaurs
+1 per unit of Centigors
+1 per unit of 8+ Razorgor
+1 per Giant
+1 per Jabberslythe
+1 per Cygor
+1 per Ghorgon
+1 Khazrak The One Eye
+1 Gorthor The Beastlord
+1 Malagor, The Dark Omen
+1 Taurox, The Brass Bull
+1 Moonclaw, Son of Moorslieb
+1 Ungrol Four-Horn
+1 Ghorros Warhoof
+1 per Giant
+1 per Jabberslythe
+1 per Cygor
+1 per Ghorgon
+1 Khazrak The One Eye
+1 Gorthor The Beastlord
+1 Malagor, The Dark Omen
+1 Taurox, The Brass Bull
+1 Moonclaw, Son of Moorslieb
+1 Ungrol Four-Horn
+1 Ghorros Warhoof
Commentary
Not a lot of change here. The most important bit was to remove the additional points that were available to Beastmen lists. I want the comp to be able to be used at a variety of points levels, and having a chunk of extra points as an option seemed a little over the top. Plus, we now have everyone starting on an even footing - in terms of points anyway! They now get a +5 Comp score to each Beastmen list, and that helps to compensate for how expensive their models are.
Bretonnia
-1 per Virtue of Heroism
-1 if you have Silver Mirror and Dispel Scroll
-1 if Crown of Command is on a Damsel or Prophetess, in addition to generic comp
-1 per Virtue of the Impetuous Knight
-1 per Trebuchet after the first.
-1 if you have Silver Mirror and Dispel Scroll
-1 if Crown of Command is on a Damsel or Prophetess, in addition to generic comp
-1 per Virtue of the Impetuous Knight
-1 per Trebuchet after the first.
-1 per Bretonnian Lord or
Paladin after the 6th
+1 per Hippogriff, in addition to generic comp
+1 per Lord/Paladin on foot, +2 if the General is on foot
+1 for the first unit of 30+ Men-at-Arms
+1 for the first unit of Peasant Bowmen
+1 per unit of Mounted Yeomen
+1 per unit of Questing Knights over 5 models
+2 Grail Reliquae
+3 if you only have 1 unit of Knights in the army, reduced to +1 if you also take Pegasus Knights
+1 Louen Leoncouer
+1 The Fey Enchantress
+1 The Green Knight
+1 per Hippogriff, in addition to generic comp
+1 per Lord/Paladin on foot, +2 if the General is on foot
+1 for the first unit of 30+ Men-at-Arms
+1 for the first unit of Peasant Bowmen
+1 per unit of Mounted Yeomen
+1 per unit of Questing Knights over 5 models
+2 Grail Reliquae
+3 if you only have 1 unit of Knights in the army, reduced to +1 if you also take Pegasus Knights
+1 Louen Leoncouer
+1 The Fey Enchantress
+1 The Green Knight
Commentary
The major change here is to take into account the End Times rules, so if you take a large number of characters then there is a comp penalty. We have also reduced the comp on Trebuchets to only the second one giving a penalty.
Chaos Dwarfs
-2 per K’daai Destroyer
-1 Chalice of Blood and Darkness
-1 per Sorcerer Prophet on Hashut
-1 per Death Shrieker Rocket
-1 per Magma Cannon
-1 per Hellcannon
-1 per Bull Centaur Taur’uk
-1 per war machine after the 4th (note that the Hellcannon counts for this, and this is on top of the individual scores per war machine)
+1 for the first unit of Chaos Dwarfs armed with Fireglaves
+1 per unit of Chaos Dwarf Ironsworn
+1 per unit of K’daai Fireborn
+1 per Dreadquake Mortar
+1 for the first Iron Daemon
+1 per Lammasu
+1 per Lammasu
Commentary
Again, as it is apparently a legal requirement, #NotARealArmy. ;-) We removed the line giving a bonus for Hobgoblins, as they seem to be in most competitive Chaos Dwarf lists anyway and don't need the bonus. The bonus for Iron Daemons was also reduced to +1 for the first only, rather than the first 2.
Daemons of Chaos
- Daemons of Chaos armies start at a comp score of -2, to take into account the army wide Special Rules and the Reign of Chaos table.
- Mono God Armies. If your army consists solely of Daemons of a single Chaos God, you may apply the below bonuses:
+1 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Nurgle
+1 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Tzeentch – also you may ignore the penalty for multiple Tzeentch casters
+2 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Slaanesh
+2 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Khorne - also you may halve the penalty for having 2 Skull Cannons
-3 Epidemius
-8 Kairos Fateweaver
-1 Blue Scribes
-2 Be'Lakor
-1 per Exalted Gift
-1 per Herald of Nurgle in the army more than units of 20+ Plaguebearers in the army
-1 per Exalted Flamer, increasing to -2 for each Exalted Flamer after the 2nd
-1 per caster using the Lore of Tzeentch after the 2nd
-1 per unit of Beasts of Nurgle
-1 per Beast of Nurgle model after the 5th
-1 per Plague Drone unit
-1 if you have 1 Skull Cannon of Khorne, -4 if you have 2 Skull Cannons
+1 per Daemon Prince
+1 per Keeper of Secrets
+1 per Blood Throne of Khorne
+1 for the first unit of Daemonettes
+1 for the first unit of Bloodletters
+1 per Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh or Hellflayer of Slaanesh after the 1st
+1 per Burning Chariot of Tzeentch
+1 per unit of 4 or more Bloodcrushers
+1 per Exalted Chariot of Slaanesh
+1 Skarbrand
+1 Ku'Gath Plaguefather
Commentary
Here is where a lot of the major changes took place. Daemons are so good, they are very difficult to comp correctly. The immediate thing to note is a generic -2 to the whole army. This is mainly to account for the Reign of Chaos, but also stops us over comping units that don't really need it because they have a Ward Save and ItP etc.
In terms of other changes, Kairos has now been comped to a major level. He's just that good, especially in the End Times where you can have plenty of other characters too. There is also a penalty for Exalted Gifts, this helps mitigate anyone who wants to take multiple Greater Daemons, and also hits the Eternal Blade (which deserves it!).
I think people may get a little annoyed about the Nurgle Herald comp, but it seems that the netlist nowadays has a single unit of Plaguebearers with two Heralds, and if it is that common it must also be rather effective. An extra -1 to that is not out of the question.
You may be thinking here that Daemons can't get positive scores, and you'd be wrong. Admittedly, it's quite hard if you want to take a lot of the good stuff. However, with a little bit of creative list building you can quite easily get into the low positives, and a Mono-Slaanesh list can score major bonus points!
Please let me know what you think. You know where you can get hold of me - here, TWF or Twitter are the best bets. Also, make sure you come back tomorrow for the next installment, Dark Elves to High Elves!
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