Raze and Ruin 2015 - Tally Comp Preview Part 2

Right, now on to the armies! The first four will be done today, and then 4 more every day until they are all released. So today we will have Beastmen, Bretonnians, Chaos Dwarfs and Daemons to talk about.

Beastmen

Beastmen players start at a comp score of +5.

The Generic Comp bonuses are modified as below when taken in a Beastmen army:

- The Beast Banner does not count for the Racial Magic Item +2 bonus.

- The +2 bonus for the Arabyan Carpet is reduced to +1 if taken on a Doombull

-1 Slugtongue

-1 per Shaman or Great Shaman after the first, only if the Shard of the Herd Stone is included
-1 per unit of Ungor Raiders after the 2nd
-1 per unit of Harpies
-1 per Tuskgor Chariot after the first 3

+1 for the first Great Shamen on Lore of the Wild

+1 for the first unit of 20+ Ungor Herds
+1 per unit of 5+ Minotaurs
+1 per unit of Centigors

+1 per unit of 6+ Razorgor
+1 per Giant
+1 per Jabberslythe
+1 per Cygor
+1 per Ghorgon
+1 Khazrak The One Eye
+1 Gorthor The Beastlord
+1 Malagor, The Dark Omen
+1 Taurox, The Brass Bull
+1 Moonclaw, Son of Moorslieb
+1 Ungrol Four-Horn
+1 Ghorros Warhoof

Changes

The most obvious thing to look at are the Generic changes at the top. The Beast Banner is pretty much a given anyway, so giving a +2 for it seems excessive, and the Flying Doombull is a bit good to get a +2 too. He does still give a bonus though!

The only other negative is for Slugtounge. He was debatable for the last version too, and with all the bonuses they get I thought negative for him was not against all odds.

Aside from that, there is now a bonus for a Great Shaman on Lore of the Wild (as it's truly rubbish!) and the bonus for units of Razorgor has been reduced to 6+ models.

Bretonnia

-1 if you take 2 of the following items, -2 if you take all 3:
   • Virtue of Heroism
   • Virtue of the Impetuous Knight
   • Crown of Command on a Damsel or Prophetess (in addition to generic comp penalty)
-1 if you have Silver Mirror and Dispel Scroll
-1 for the second Trebuchet

-1 per Bretonnian Lord or Paladin after the 6th

+1 per Hippogriff
+1 per Lord/Paladin on foot, increased to +2 if the General is on foot
+1 for the first unit of 20+ Men-at-Arms
+1 for the first unit of Peasant Bowmen
+1 per unit of Mounted Yeomen
+1 per unit of Questing Knights
+2 Grail Reliquae
+3 if you only have 1 unit of Knights in the army, reduced to +1 if you also take Pegasus Knights
+1 Louen Leoncouer
+1 The Fey Enchantress
+1 The Green Knight

 

Changes

The major change is at the top of the list. In the previous incarnation each of these three had an  individual negative point. It was pointed out that these are all the toys available to Brets, so hitting all of them was slightly over the top. So now they are in a group together, and you need to have two or more to get a hit.

The rest is the same. I can't really see where else bonuses can be had from the book, but I think that's a problem from having an old book.

Chaos Dwarfs

-1 Chalice of Blood and Darkness
-1 per Sorcerer Prophet on Lore of Hashut

-1 per Bull Centaur Taur’uk
-1 per Death Shrieker Rocket
-1 per Magma Cannon
-1 per Hellcannon

-2 per K’daai Destroyer
-1 per war machine after the 4th (note that the Hellcannon counts for this, and this is on top of the individual scores per war machine)

+1 for the first unit of Chaos Dwarfs armed with Fireglaves

+1 per unit of Chaos Dwarf Ironsworn
+1 per unit of K’daai Fireborn
+1 per Dreadquake Mortar

+1 for the first Iron Daemon

+1 per Lammasu

Changes

Nothing to report here. I just don't know the army well enough to know where the optimal comp points come from. I'd happily take some advice from Chaos Dwarf players!

Daemons of Chaos

- Daemons of Chaos armies start at a comp score of -2, to take into account the army wide Special Rules and the Reign of Chaos table.

- Mono God Armies. If your army consists solely of Daemons of a single Chaos God, you may apply the below bonuses:

+1 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Nurgle
+2 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Tzeentch – also you may ignore the penalty for multiple Tzeentch casters
+1 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Slaanesh
+2 if your army consists solely of Daemons of Khorne – also you may halve the penalty for having 2 Skull Cannons

-8 Kairos Fateweaver
-3 Epidemius

-1 Blue Scribes

-2 Be'Lakor

-1 for the first Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster, -2 for any subsequent

-1 per Exalted Gift

-1 per Herald of Nurgle in the army more than units of 20+ Plaguebearers in the army
-1 for each Exalted Flamer after the 1st, increasing to -2 for each after the 3rd
-1 per caster using the Lore of Tzeentch after the 2nd
-1 per unit of Beasts of Nurgle
-1 per Beast of Nurgle model after the 5th

-1 per Plague Drone unit

-1 if you have 9+ Plague Drone models in the army
-1 if you have 1 Skull Cannon of Khorne, -4 if you have 2 Skull Cannons

+1 per Daemon Prince
+1 per Keeper of Secrets

+1 per Blood Throne of Khorne
+1 for the first unit of Daemonettes
+1 for the first unit of Bloodletters

+1 per Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh or Hellflayer of Slaanesh after the 1st

+1 per unit of Screamers of Tzeentch after the 1st

+1 per Burning Chariot of Tzeentch
+1 per unit of 4 or more Bloodcrushers

+1 per Exalted Chariot of Slaanesh

+1 Skarbrand
+1 Ku'Gath Plaguefather

+1 Isabella the Accursed

Changes

Here we go then, the first of the powerhouse books of 8th. Daemons are soooo hard to comp effectively, as most of their units are really good! However, Kairos is a good place to start. Combined with the general -2 for the army, if you take Kairos you start off at -10 before you add anything else. There are enough bonuses to let a Kairos army get somewhere close to 0 though, it's just not going to be as effective in the hands of someone just picking the army up - I think this is a good thing myself.

The negatives that have been added in this version are for the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster, and for having 9 or more Plague Drones to stop two huge units being an automatic choice. Of all the things added in the End Times, Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirsters seem to be one of the things that Daemons want to use, and they are very hard. 2 of them were in the Midlands GT winning army, so they are obviously a decent option, and having played against one they can dish out a LOT of punishment.

On the positive front, I've added Screamers - but only for the 2nd and 3rd unit. This is mainly to give an all-Tzeentch list an option for positive, but if you take more than one unit they compare nicely in terms of points to the other bonus point options. 

Finally, I added Isabella from the Archaon book. She seems an interesting choice, and in no way overpowered, so I'd like to see someone give her a go!

That's it then! As I have said before, I'm happy to hear any feedback about this first draft of the comp, especially from Chaos Dwarf players. However, any suggestions may not be used so please don't complain if your ideas aren't incorporated! I'll see you back here tomorrow for the next 4 armies. :)

Raze and Ruin 2015 - Tally Comp Preview Part 1

So it's that time of year again! Raze and Ruin 2015 has been announced, and this year the tickets are already on sale! If you're interested in attending, you can find the details here on TWF. This year, despite the release of Age of Sigmar - which I keep intending to write a post about - we will be playing 8th Edition Warhammer. This is mainly because the guys at the club have very little interest in AoS at the moment. We've been gearing up to play 8th since the last event, and it would be wrong for me to deny them the chance to play at least one event under those rules. I'm not saying we won't be using AoS in the future, but this year we won't be.

We will be using Tally Comp again this year, and the point of this post is to start the ball rolling on getting it out there. I've been updating it once we decided it would be 8th Ed, and I've made a few changes since the last version. However, including the End Times armies has meant that it has been tricky to check it is as close to correct as I would like it to be. So I am going to do the same as I did last year, and release the comp a few armies at a time over the next few days. I will also invite comments and suggestions, but I won't guarantee that any particular suggestions will be used.

So, where do we start? As with last time, we start with the Generic Comp section.

Generic Composition Rules

• The following generic magic items will attract composition points if taken in your army:

-1 for the Crown of Command                +1 for Sword of Bloodshed

-1 for the Standard of Discipline             +1 for Book of Ashur

-3 for Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress             +1 for Scroll of Leeching

+2 for the Wizarding Hat                         +1 for Shivejir’s Hex Scroll

+2 for the Arabyan Carpet                       +1 for Rampager’s Standard

• The following bonuses apply if the circumstances are met:

+1 if your army does not include an item that automatically dispels a spell

(Such as the Dispel Scroll or the Cube of Darkness. This does not apply to Daemons of Chaos)

+2 if your army includes a race-specific magic item that costs 60 points or more

(Note that Exalted Gifts from the Daemons of Chaos army book and Runic Items from the Dwarfs army book do not count, though Dwarf Ancestral Heirlooms do count)

+1 if your army includes no Wizards or Spellcasters. This is increased to +2 if you also have no Bound Spells, either Innate or as Magic Items.

(This does not apply to Dwarfs)

+2 if your army does not include a Battle Standard Bearer

(This is reduced to +1 for Daemons of Chaos, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts and Undead Legion armies)

• Units (not characters or single models) that cost over a certain points value will attract penalties as per the below list:

-1 per unit that costs between 450 and 599 points inclusive

-3 per unit that costs between 600 and 749 points inclusive

-5 per unit that costs 750 points or more

These penalties are waived if a unit attracts a positive modifier

• In addition, certain choices available to many armies have bonuses or penalties attached as follows:

+1 for the first non-spellcaster character mounted on a Monster

+1 per character mounted on a Chariot

-1 per character who knows 3 or more spells from the Lore of Death or Lore of Undeath

-1 per spellcaster who knows spells from the Lore of Light after the 3rd

• Any comp score for Special Characters will be listed in their own entry. They do not apply any further bonuses or penalties.

So where are the changes? Firstly, I've added some items to the Magic Item list. These are items that are expensive and rarely taken, so a positive for them is not beyond the realms of doubt. I've also modified the No Magic clause, so that the bonus is also available for an army that only takes Bound spells but at a reduced value.

The next addition is one that I felt was obviously missing last year. Every army has a BSB right? And why not, they are very useful. So in a comp pack that encourages unusual choices why isn't there a bonus for not taking one? Obviously the armies that get a reduced benefit out of their BSB also get a reduced bonus from not taking it, or it would be an obvious choice.

The last change is one that may take a little longer to explain. I've added something into the main Rules Pack about Look Out Sir saves for characters targeted by the big unit killing spells. Basically, if you have a positive Comp score, you are allowed to take a single Look Out Sir against Dwellers, 13th or Final Transmutation. If your score is +6 or more, you get two Look Out Sirs.
With all these changes (pretty much the only rules changes in the document) it seemed unfair to add an additional comp onto the Lore of Life, so it was removed. I toyed with just playing straight out of the Rulebook for these spells, and hitting Life and Metal the same, but I think this way is slightly more elegant.
What was added in it's place was the Lore of Undeath. This has proved to be very powerful in the right list, and it is difficult to predict which armies will get the most out of it. Just to be on the safe side, it's getting a negative for high level Undeath casters.

So that's it for the Generic comp. I'll try and get the first few armies done and up on here later today. Meanwhile, if you have any comments about the comp please feel free to email me, contact me on Twitter, or post below or on the TWF thread linked at the top.

Midlands GT: An Evaluation

So, the Midlands GT was a couple of weekends ago and I had a great time. I went up on the Friday and really enjoyed the social scene - hanging out with people in the hotel bar on the Friday night (after a quick practice game!), and going for a meal on the Saturday night. It made me wish that I could have done this a lot more at events during 8th edition, as I usually had to go to tournaments near home so I could go back on the Saturday night. But that's beside the point. The point is that, since I announced my list on here before the event I should really use the same platform to discuss the results!

(Disclaimer: Since getting back I have been concentrating on Raze and Ruin 2015. There will be more on that in a future post, but it meant that this post is being written 2 weeks after the event rather than a couple of days! Hopefully I 'll be able to remember everything...)

Practice Game
To remind everyone what I was using, here is my final list:

I arrived on the Friday, and had arranged a game against the guy I was room sharing with and his Dwarfs. Admittedly, this game was never going to be the perfect practice - I'd never actually used this list in it's entirety before, and it had been a very long time since I had played any game at all! Here is what he was using:

A pretty tough list. Combat dwarfs are never easy, and when they also have more points than me it's going to get really hard to get anything! I deployed my Chameleons to limit his vanguard, and pushed up slightly. I also showed my rust by leaving him enough space to put his Rangers in my deployment zone. My mounted Oldblood chased off a Gyrocopter, but this left him vulnerable to a charge from the Hammerers. I wasn't too worried, as if he charged and made it, I had an easy counter lined up with the Temple Guard, and in the flank too if the Oldblood somehow held.
That's what happened - the Oldblood challenged, the Lord accepted and just couldn't do any damage. Neither could I, the Slann was close so I passed the test, then the TG went in.

And after several rounds of combat, the Hammerers had died, as had the Oldblood. The Longbeards joined in, and it was going to be a massive grind that I think magic would have given me the edge in. I was however losing almost all of my support units. The Miners came on behind me and threatened Tetto and the Crossbowmen targeted the Basti.

We called it at the end of turn 4, and I think I would have probably lost, but maybe not by a lot. Possibly enough to keep it as a draw under the comp, depending on how much the TG could catch. It was good fun though, and a nice way to blow the cobwebs off.


Game 1: Empire

Saturday morning rolled in and I turned up prepared for my Empire match in Round 1. The draw had been done earlier in the week, and the lists had been released, so I knew what I was facing. Here it is:

The major threat was the Tank, and secondarily the Demigryphs. The Temple Guard could easily take either, thanks to the Phirana Blade Oldblood, but they couldn't take both at once. I also had to save the Potion for the Tank, so the Demis were going to be hard work.
I chose Hold Out as my mission, as I didn't think he was going to push anything forward except for the two units I needed to kill anyway. We rolled for spells and neither got what we want - I got no Dwellers, he got no Banishment. Suddenly this was interesting!
I Vanguarded up the Skrox and the Temple Guard, trying to keep him in his back field. I also won the first turn so puched up again. The Skrox went into a marsh within charge range of the knights, to try and tempt them to charge. They didn't, so I did in my turn 2. The mounted Oldblood pushed up towards these too, but failed the charge. He killed a lot of skinks, but the Kroxigor eventually ground through the unit.
In his turn 2 he put the Tank straight at the TG, but fell an inch short. So in my turn I obliged him! The Oldblood popped his potion, but only did 4 wounds. This could be trouble... I had diverted the Demigryphs a turn earlier, but they overran into the  Basti and this gave them enough to reform and charge the flank of the TG unit in his turn 3. This turned into an epic grind, and magic swung it for me. That, and the Phirana Blade. :) Eventually, both Empire units went down.
With those two gone, I had won. The question was by how much. This was decided when the Halbardiers charged the mounted Oldblood, and after a few rounds failed a Leadership test. He ran them down, giving me a huge win.
I also managed my mission, held my Fortitude, destroyed his and kept him from doing his mission. Maximum points round 1. Ooops!


Game 2: Dark Elves

So, a tough match up round 2. To be expected really, I was going to be playing a big winner. I had also played Dave Pyle at Blood and Glory last November, and felt kinda bad for the way I played. I killed Morathi out of a unit with a Stone Thrower, and I raised a unit of Zombies in his deployment zone turn 6 to win. This time I think he had the edge on me with lists, as I had nothing at all that could touch Hellebron in combat. Once she went in the Black Guard and barreled forward, I had little chance.
I did make it close though early on. I pushed through a Dwellers on the Black Guard unit, and despite adding +8 the dispel was failed. 13 died, leaving the unit much more vulnerable. Next turn I tried to send both the Skrox and the TG into them, hoping that I could take a challenge with a champion and break the unit through weight of numbers. If I made the charges and got through (a big if!) then the game was over. If I made neither, I was still set up for a counter charge the following turn as he would have to pick his poison. Unfortunately I only made it with the Skrox. They were butchered, and he then charged the TG unit.
Even then, I weathered the first round and came up with a plan in my turn. I would accept a challenge with the Slann, Potion up the Oldblood and destroy the BSB and the unit. Hopefully she would break on combat res. I played out the rest of my turn, got to combat, and promptly issued a challenge with the Oldblood.
*Facepalm*
From there, the result was predictable. I was slowly butchered, and as the TG were stuck the rest of my army was taken apart. Huge loss. I didn't get Breakthrough (obvious, but I always felt this was the toughest mission for me to do) and I couldn't get enough stuff to break his Fortitude. A tough game, but the result was fair.
One each Dave, there's a tiebreaker coming at some point! :P


Game 3: Warriors of Chaos

One win, one loss, and I get Warriors. The army itself didn't bother me that much, the biggest threat was Final Trans (if he rolls it), the Hellcannon and the Chimera. I thought I could deploy cagy, see what he does and try and control the game for the first few turns getting him to arrive piecemeal.
He did roll Final Trans, but he deployed badly - the Hellcannon was out of General and BSB range. I Vanguarded the mounted Oldblood straight at the Hellcannon, and predictably it failed its test turn one and charged at me. This meant it was out of the game turn 1, as I charged it in my first turn. Took a while, but it eventually went down. The Oldblood and the Camos also took the attention of a Warrior block as they tried to rescue their monster, and the General had to fly over that side too.
In the middle, I distracted the Knights, the other Warriors were typically slow, so it was the Chimera that was the threat. I talked this through with my opponent, just sort of chatting about the game, and told him in jest that Plan A to deal with it was for him to land it next to me and for me to poison it to death. He then does just that, breathing on the Skrox. I am confused, but don't look the gift horse in the mouth, reforming the Skrox wide and another Cohort to throw all the javalins in the world at it. Here is where it fell apart. It wouldn't die.
Start of his turn 4, he had a Chimera sitting right next to two skink units. He charged the Skrox, and went through them in two turns. They fled through Tetto's unit, who Panicked, and both were chased off the board by the Chimera. All that shooting, a Stand and Shoot, 2 rounds of combat including Kroxigor and I do 2 wounds through it's Regen.
He also left his General very close to my mounted Oldblood, who killed off the Hellcannon in his turn. I reformed it, charged his General and should have had a good shot at killing him. However, the Disc managed a hit against the Oldblood, wounded him and I failed the saves. With the 2 wounds he had taken from the Hellcannon, he died before he could swing. Hitting on 3's with Predatory Fighter, wounding on 2's and the Other Trickster's Shard in play, his General was in serious trouble. Instead, he gets a free reform to get him back into the game.
That turn killed it for me. No way back from here for the win. I could, however, pick up some points still. He was going to have to go some to Break me, as I had a Cohort hiding in a corner and the TG were untouched. I also had my mission, Expand and Conquer, and that was going well with the aforementioned hiding Cohort. I juts had to try and break his Fortitude. Best option was to take out a Warrior unit, and then either the BSB or the Knights. I got the Warriors (well, I got their standard as they fled from combat with the TG) but I couldn't catch them or get anything else.
A tough loss.


Game 4: High Elves

So, overnight I was sitting on 1 win and 2 losses. I was aiming for the top half, so I was hoping for 2 wins on Sunday to let me get there easily. Once the draw appeared though, and I saw what I was facing, I knew it was going to be a tough game.

There were 3 big obvious threats - the Dragon, the Frostie and the big Knight bus. However, I knew I could deal with them each individually with the Temple Guard. Neither the Dragon or the Frostheart would want to go near the Phirana Blade whilst he has the Potion, and the Silver Helms couldn't really hope to hurt the Temple Guard themselves. However, if any two of them went in together, and it was a much harder prospect. So the problem presented itself - how to ensure I only fought one at a time?
It actually proved rather straightforward. I Vanguarded the mounted Oldblood again (notice a pattern? ;-) ) straight at the Phoenix. I thought he was best placed to hold it up, or even do some damage with his GW and OTS. Even if it flew away, he was placed to get the Bolt Thrower on that side. He didn;t fly away though. I can only assume he had had a poor experience of Oldbloods in the past, as he seemed overly scared of him. Even with a failed Stupidity roll he didn't push it up.
The Camos dealt with the other, and in the middle I moved up a Cohort with the Priest to close to the Dragon. This would let me get into Dwellers range of the Bus (which I never even tried - lack of dice) and hopefully convince the Dragon to go into them. I shot at him, putting a wound on the Prince (which fit well with my Assassinate mission!) and he took the bait, charging in. The Bus went into the Skrox, which I was fine with - the TG were lined up for a flank charge on either the Dragon or the Bus if the Skrox broke. In the combat though, he left me with two ranks of skinks and left the Kroxigor alone. I put one into killing the BSB, doing 1 wound, and the rest went for knocking off the 4 wounds from the unit that would leave me steadfast. They did it.
The TG then went into their flank, and the result of that was rather predictable. The Dragon was also held in place by successive Challenges, and lost the first two rounds. With Ld10 though, he stuck around. Eventually though he got to fight the unit, breaking them and getting free. He couldn't get far though, and in my next turn the Lore Attribute from Urannon's killed the Prince from the top. Mission complete. :D I then threw a load of shooting and magic at the Dragon, and it went down in the next couple of turns. The remnants of the Skrox chased down the Bus after it rallied and killed it in another fight, but the Level 4 survived.
The final moments of the game saw the mounted Oldblood finally catch the Phoenix. It wasn't going to affect the outcome of the game, that was already won, but I wanted to see what he could do. He charged the flank and did a wound, and it broke from combat and fled off the board. Good result! Final score saw me score my mission, but he also got his. I also broke him and stayed unbroken, so a big win, but not a maximum win.


Game 5: Daemons of Chaos

Although Daemons are a bad match up for Lizards, I was quite happy about this as it meant I played 5 different armies in the event (6 if you count the practice game!). However, once I looked at the list I wasn't so happy. I had no idea what the Wrath of Khorne version of the Bloodthirster did, but it looked dangerous. The big block of Plaguebearers were going to be a pain to shift, as were the Beasts. Kinda wish I'd brought the Flaming Banner now! Plus, a cannon and plenty of magic. This was going to be tough.
The best plan I had for the Bloodthirster was to tempt it into a small unit, and countercharge with the TG. I set it up, sacrificing the Priest for this plan as he gets a better charge against units with Characters. The champion did his job, and I even put a wound on with Stand and Shoot. The Potion went up next turn, and the TG went in. Dice deserted me though, and only 1 wound was caused. I also made a mistake here, as I knew I'd left my flank to the Beasts. That was fine, as I was Stubborn, but the mistake was not moving the Slann away from that flank. This meant he was in combat when they went in - oops.
On the flank, the mounted Oldblood had gone for the cannon and Daemon Prince. However, a failed Stupidity test saw him fail to charge. and the Dark Prince Thirsts hit him the next turn. he failed by 4, and failed all 4 Ward saves. So I wasn't going to get the cannon.
The fight in the middle ground on for ages. The Plaguebearers got in in his turn, then the Skrox got into their flank the turn after. He then sent the Horrors into another flank, so I sent the Basti into them. At the end of turn 5, the only things left were a few Plaguebearers, the Skrox, the Oldblood and the Basti - the Bloodthirster, Slann, Temple Guard and Beasts were all killed in the fight.
My mission was to hold the middle, so to Skrox had to stay there - they were then cleared up by the Daemon Prince in his turn 5.
The last turn saw me break his Fortitude by killing the other Horror block, and his last turn saw him fail to cast Choir, but kill the Basti with the cannon. Once we had added it up, he had won by about 400 points - a draw. I thought it strange he didn't shoot the Oldblood, and said so. He said he thought he had the Dragonbane Gem and hadn't bothered to check, despite it being Open lists. He didn't ask me to confirm, and I wasn't going to volunteer the information, but it must have left a sour taste in his mouth as he spent a while complaining to his mate about how bad his dice were throughout the game. He didn't roll well, but he had some really good moments to back this up, so I'm not sure his complaints were anything too drastic to mention so much.


Overall
So 2 wins, 2 losses and a draw. That gave me 52 points from games. I also picked up 27 points for missions, leaving my in 48th place - exactly half way up the standings.
I'm rather pleased by that. Despite being very rusty, I played my army well I think. I only made a couple of big mistakes - game 2 and game 5 being the obvious ones - and I lost one of them due to dice on the Chimera's Regen.
The event itself was fantastic. The atmosphere between the players, the space available in the hall, the facilities of the venue and the effort gone to by the team were all top notch. If it runs again I will absolutely be going.
As to my army, I think I made the right choices about what to take. Having looked through the other army lists, Ogres might have been a better choice from a Meta standpoint, as Skaven were popular and Warriors not - these are good conditions for Ogre players. I'm not sure my Ogre list from a few posts ago would have done very well though. However, the Vampires would have been the wrong choice by a long shot.


Hope you enjoyed the recount of the event, if it does run next year I would heartily recommend it to anyone. See you next time!

Midlands GT List Evolution

Well, the deadline for lists for the Midlands GT I discussed in my last post has come and gone, and I have sumbitted a list for what may well be my last tournament games of 8th Edition. I'll give my views on Age of Sigmar another time, once I have had a chance to read the rules and digest what sort of game it is. For now though, some thoughts about the list I will be taking and how it evolved.

CHOICE

Last time, I was having difficulty choosing between three different lists. I asked for some feedback, and a lot of people seemed to favour the VC and Ogre lists, but the most telling bit of advice was to take what I remembered most from 8th Edition. Of all three, the army that I feel will lose the most (in terms of playstyle) from the change to Age of Sigmar will be the Lizardmen, so I decided on taking them for one last spin.

Bastiladons, ho!

For those that don't know, I have also been into hospital since my last blog post to have a tumour removed from my ear. I am now starting the process of recovery, but it has meant that there has been no time for gaming between then and now. So, in order to improve my list, I turned to Twitter and to Theory.


Mark 2

The first thing Twitter suggested (alright, it was @ukrocky90 so doesn't really count!) was that Temple Guard are boring and I should take lots of dinosaurs. now I've never played the Monster Mash list to it's fullest extent, and I don't have a Carnosaur so couldn't really do it properly. However, I thought I would have a go at writing a list that fit that theme.


Saurus Oldblood: Talisman Of Preservation; Other Tricksters Shard; great weapon; light armour; Cold One 245
Saurus Oldblood: Piranha Blade; Charmed Shield; Potion Of Strength; Dawnstone; Cold One 270
Saurus Oldblood: Arabyan Carpet; Enchanted Shield; Dragonbane Gem; Sword Of Might; light armour 229

Tetto'eko 185

10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin; shield 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin; shield 70
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
24 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer; 3 Kroxigor 300

Stegadon: Sharpened Horns 235
Stegadon: Sharpened Horns 235
Bastilodon 150
Bastilodon 150

2,399 points

4 dinosaurs, 2 Cold One Oldbloods and an Oldblood on a Carpet, and some Skinks in the Core to do the missions. Seemed like a list that could pack a punch, be a lot of fun in some games, but get shot or out-manouvered too easily to be really competitive.

This idea was quickly abandoned in favour of the Temple Guard. I really feel that the Comp in place for Midlands pushes Lizards towards this style of list, and if there are not a clear majority of Temple Guard lists once they are published I will eat my proverbial hat. Therefore, I went back to the Mk1 list and started making adjustments.



Mark 3

The original list had a couple of areas where it could be improved. The obvious thing to change were the Ripperdactyls - I've not had a lot of practice with them and 160 point of 4+ armour is quite a lot when they do nothing for me in terms of the missions. So, if I was going to drop something it would be them.

What to replace them with though? Well, the comp line that really affects Lizards (aside from the shot cap) is the one about Mounted Saurus, Tetto and a Dispel Scroll. So it would make sense to try and get another of these in, as I only have two in the original list. I know a Scar-Vet on a Cold One comes to around 150 points, so that would be a simple change. However, with the Arcane Vassal rule a Skink Priest is such a valuable commodity that one of these carrying a scroll would be a better investment.


Slann Mage-Priest: Channelling Staff; Harmonic Convergence; Ironcurse Icon; Lore of Life; Battle Standard 375
Saurus Oldblood: Dragonhelm; Other Tricksters Shard; Talisman Of Endurance; great weapon; Cold One 231
Saurus Oldblood: Enchanted Shield; Dawnstone; Piranha Blade; Potion Of Strength; light armour 249

Tetto'eko 185
Skink Priest: Lore of Heavens 65

24 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer; 3 Kroxigor 300
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin; shield 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin; shield 70

28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; Musician; Standard Bearer 422
5 Chameleon Skinks 65
3 Terradon Riders: Flaming Bolas 108

2,400 points

Dropping a single Temple Guard in addition to the Rippers gave me enough points to add in a Priest and a unit of Terradons. I'm not particularly good with these flyers either, but at least their sacrificial role is one that comes cheaper, and the Drop Rocks is rather useful in an age of small Elven cavalry units. I also gave them flaming shooting, just in case a large unit of Trolls made an appearance - Lizards struggle to find Flaming aside from using a banner slot.

The biggest change was a decision to go for Life on the Slann rather than Death. Death is an obvious Lore, and has some cracking spells in it, but for me it never does as well as it should. Purple Sun from the middle of an I2 unit is a Bad Idea(tm) and the Snipe Spells I can never get to work as they should. Dwellers though is always feared, and the idea of T8 Temple Guard is just funny! Plus, as I had Tetto I didn't need to rely on the Slann for his magic as much as in other lists.

However, I couldn't find the points for the Scroll, so the addition of Drop Rocks and some flaming shooting was not really worth it. On to the next evolution!


Mark 4

Now we started to get somewhere. The Terradons went, and in came a Bastilodon. I love these guys, they are the best thing to be added to the book in this edition, both in terms of models and rules. When running a single combat block, being able to boost their Initiative is massive, plus the addition of the laser beam will help against Elves and other chaff heavy armies. I also added the Scroll to the Priest - if that was the point of having him then he should get it, right?! I even managed to get the Ward save on the Oldblood up to a much more cannon-resiliant 4+ and return the Temple Guard to 29 strong.


Slann Mage-Priest: Channelling Staff; Harmonic Convergence; Ironcurse Icon; Lore of Life; Battle Standard 375
Saurus Oldblood: Dragonhelm; Other Tricksters Shard; Talisman Of Preservation; great weapon; Cold One 246
Saurus Oldblood: Enchanted Shield; Dawnstone; Piranha Blade; Potion Of Strength; light armour 249

Tetto'eko 185
Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll 90

24 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer; 1 Kroxigor 200
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin; shield 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin; shield 70

29 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; Musician; Standard Bearer 436
5 Chameleon Skinks 65
Bastilodon: Solar Engine 150

2,396 points

Again, not a huge amount of change but we can see the style of the list. The problem here was that the extra points were found from the Skink/Krox unit in the Core section, leaving me with just the Temple Guard as a combat threat. Not necessarily a problem, that Skink unit has the potential to take down some smaller stuff even with only 1 Kroxigor. However, the balance of the list just didn't look right. So I tried to find the points elsewhere to get those two Kroxigor back.


Mark 5

Now we had a plan, it was simply a case of playing a bit to get those extra points needed to keep everything I wanted. At the end of the day, it seemed the obvious place was to lose a unit of Skirmishers. Not an ideal solution, as 2 units with Javalins are a really good nuisance team. But unfortunately I just couldn't see another place to get the points from. I also sacrificed the 4+ Ward on the Oldblood back to a 5+ Ward, and the Temple Guard went back down to 28.

Now a few people might see blowpipes on the skirmishers and laugh, but I've found a unit of these are not too bad. I've certainly found a few uses for them, and the very few times I've only had a single unit of skirmishers I've felt more comfortable when they've had blowpipes. Most of the time though they will end up being sacrificed for something, so whilst javalins and shields are a good defence they don't help when you're run down!!!

Here's my final list then:


Slann Mage-Priest: Channelling Staff; Harmonic Convergence; Ironcurse Icon; Lore of Life; Battle Standard 375
Saurus Oldblood: Dragonhelm; Other Tricksters Shard; Talisman Of Endurance; great weapon; Cold One 231
Saurus Oldblood: Enchanted Shield; Dawnstone; Piranha Blade; Potion Of Strength; light armour 249

Tetto'eko 185
Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll; Lore of Heavens 90

24 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer; 3 Kroxigor 300
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; Musician; Standard Bearer 130
10 Skink Skirmishers: Blowpipes 70

28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; Musician; Standard Bearer 422
5 Chameleon Skinks 65
Bastilodon: Solar Engine 150

2,397 points


After 5 iterations, I'm fairly happy with it. It should be able to do all of the Secret Missions. It has a pretty powerful combat unit with a character who can take on almost anyone. It has a variety of magic, not reliant on a single spell. It has maxed out the shot cap. It can push forward quickly, and it can hold back. Above all, it should be fun to play with!

If you have any suggestions, or want to discuss how you build your lists, please feel free to get in touch - either below or through Twitter, or via any other means. If I do manage to get any practice in with this list I'll try and document it, and I will certainly be back after the event to let you know how my first Midlands GT went.

TTFN!